1. Walking around with permanent Cold on my skin …. !?? … I would be ill, before I’ve lost 10 grams of fat.
   My muscle reflexes would be : Cramping, wich would turn me into the same back-acke problems as many years before.
   What an idea !
   I need “heat” to feel healthy, and to BE healthy ! (Radiating heat, like sunheat, heat from gas stove etc.. ) or heat produced by intensive … SPORT. That’s why I’m running. To be heathy , not to loose fat.
   Loosing fat can HELP you to become more healthy, but it’s not a syonym !
   And the best way to loose (a considerable amount of) fat is a concious change in lifestyle. Is that easy ? No, it’s difficult seen from the perspective of ‘loosing pleasant forms of addictions’ (in eating). You need intelligence to change your diet, to start with, to volumes you NEED for the day, nothing more, and secondly from hyper-carbohydrate (which is most common in obesitas plagued countries) to low-carbo & relatively higher lipides (fat) replacement intake.
   Everybody should know that we only need CARBOs intake, when we are going to do long-lasting phsical labour. In ou sedentary life, they are useless, because near to all carbo’s you eat, (after digestion) are considered excess glucose in in blood stream, and excess glucose is turnng into that fantastic long-term fat we do not want… Just b wise and STOP feeding the glucose to fat metabolism !
   USE your fat as a source of energy when in low activity mode (90% of modern peoples life…) and know that continuously supplementing glucose from your intestines will BLOCK the reverse metabolism of fat into glucose in the bloodstream.
   I’ve known this simply through basic physiology course (any first year student can know this…) and it’s amazing still people are denieing the simple facts about glucose levels and where the glucose “need” to come from…, how it’s controlled and how you disturb it !

   Your shivering of the cold will NOT help you, when you keep eating SUGARS (carbos) of any kind ! (‘fast’ and ‘slow’ alike, no difference)
   The heartrate at a certain, specific level of activity tells you a lot about energy use repartition in the body. Example. If your heartrate is 68/min at office work (chairsitting but typing, writing talking) , and it would raise to 75 in exactly the same situaton, but now shivering of cold with some device, then the difference of the pumped blood volume is a good indication of what energy is needed extra to fight the heat loss at the skin level. In this example it would account for a 10% raise. It would represent a mere 250 kcal/day extra use IF YOU GET THE SHIVERING DIVICE ON 24 h/day !! … and then, with the wrong eating patern, you just get it out (easily) of 62 grams of sugar… (or any of the replacement carbo’s in different proportions, like between 100 grams and 70 grams of different kinds of bread) … instead of digging in your fat reserves.
   Remember, those numbers are rough examples (on a non specified individual, as every body has a different basal metabolism) given the circumstance you would carry the cool stuff ALL DAY & ALL NIGHT…
   If you reduce it to 6 hours / day , then divide everything by 4 …

   Do the effects exist ? Yes of course, they exist. But are they ‘important’ ? No, they are not. Controlling your food intake is important ! And when doing heavy labour you nee more, when doing light activities/rest you need just a bit over your basal metabolism (= when you would be asleep 24h)
   Again, the heart rate is a good inicator of your total momentary enery use.
   Example : My total flat rest heartrate is like 56-58. (basal)
   Sitting up and doing nothing, it raises to 60-62. Working before the laptop goes to 68-74.
   Cardriving, between 80-95. (different situations)
   Walking between 90-110. (different speeds)
   Running in slow training mode (jogging) between 130-140.
   Running in tempo training mode (9.5-10.5 km/h) between 145-160
   Running in short distance contest mode (10.5-11.5 km/h) between 158-168
   … The resulting total energy use DURING the actions is roughly proportional to the heart rate.
   The SOURCE of the energy n the body however, can be way different, according to how and what you eat ! You only need direct carbo supplies from the intestines, when raising your consumption seriously, like running faster than an easy jogging pace. (Or digging the garden, moving furniture all day.. etc etc …)
   The % help from “cold” will even shrink on totals !
   I measured another interesting set of numbers. While running at exactly the same speed (10.5 km/h) but in different environmental temperatues, I got 152 at 15°C and 160 at 23°C (165 at 28°C)
   The increase also due to more blood needed for bodycooling at the skin, but here the total skin surface is in use, nor just ‘shoulderpacks’…) (In running terms, it just means that the possible prestations go down while temperature goes up, less is available for the muscles, when striving to best speeds)
   Note 1
   All numbers always are personal.
   Note 2
   My purpose is to show how small the overall % effect is.
   Note 3
   My purpose is to explain why you could overule ALL these minor effects by eating the wrong way.

   Cheers

   • Go back on the meds, homey.

2. I ordered my Cold Shoulder Ice Vest over two months ago. I paid for the item up front, including whatever shipping & handling they charged. Two months later, I have received no product. Even more mysteriously, I have made contact with this company over ten times via their ordering/customer service number, with absolutely no results. Not one phone call, ever. I have e-mailed them approx. four times; again, no progress. At this point I have little choice other than to sue them for the return of my payment. I am still hoping against hope that they have just “forgotten” me (for two months lol) and I wil find my Cold Shoulder Ice Vest in its box, waiting for me at my front door. But all magical thinking aside, I must urge people who are considering ordering this product to think twice. I ordered mine in the usual and customary way, paid in full at time of order, and have received nothing. At this point I’m sure that there are others like me who have not received their order in a timely way, and are being ignored by this company’s customer service dept. It seems unlikely that just one egregious mistake has been made, especially given all my attempts to recitify whatever problem exists. So, BUYER BEWARE!!

   • Sounds like you engaged in “magical thinking” when you bought it in the first place. What made you think it would actually work? Also why don’t you just get a refund through your credit card or PayPal or whatever payment method you used?

3. Watching these guys argue over an internet blog like a bunch of teenagers is extremely off putting. Thanks for making my decision for me guys!

   • Maybe you should stick to watching Dr Oz.

4. I keep my body in shape after marriage by using blue fat freeze system. It has already helped me lose 3 inches around my waist in 2 months. But consult a doctor before using this kit.

   • This blue fat freeze thing looks interesting. I’ll definitely consult my physician about it.

   • Looks like a scam, just like the one below that made the same claims.

5. After reading the exchange between Paul and Eric, I still have to side with Eric. Paul, you keep basically admitting that it does work, when you use it. You then rant that people won’t use it long-term because it isn’t comfortable. However, that has no bearing on the fact if you do use it, it does work. Also, on one hand you state that BAT activation is B.S. then go on to admit it isn’t. Whether or not people will use it long-term is not Eric’s concern. It is just like buying a treadmill. If used consistently, and properly, it works. However, most people stop using it and it becomes a clothes hanger. that isn’t the fault of the manufacturer, nor is proving a false claim by them either. Also, Paul, please provide proof to your claims. Do you have any third-party tests that show any effectiveness for your product beyond your own anecdotal “evidence”?

6. BTW, I didn’t copy anything your doing as I was already working on my own belt before I ever saw your deal.

   Many people are thinking and working on the same things all he time, no one owns any idea as we tune into them and they are amiable for all who are so inclined.

   I have now less than 4 more projects to do on indiegogo and kickstarted, ideas are a dime a dozen, it just depends on what people want at the time.

   I have been so far ahead of the curve on many occasions, this time I thought I was late until I realized all you guys were hyping up this whole brown fat thing to people.

   So I’ll just bide my time and keep telling the truth about cryolysis and the BAT B.S.

   I’ll just keep relaunching it periodically until people realize what the truth is on this type of fat loss.

7. Like I said before Brown fat activation for weight loss the way you are promoting it is B.S. Period end of story man, just admit it and sell based on cryolysis because that does work.

   Are you afraid of patent lawsuits or something? is that why you are trying to approach it from this hyped up brown fat nonsense?

   I have the ripped look i have due to one thing and that’s doing the cryolysis via gel packs that anyone can do at home with or without your’s or my system. They can do exactly what i did and get the same results and deal with the same issues I did.

   But I will NEVER tell anyone what you are saying because it’s complete B.S. and no one will ever do it long term.

   Hell I was just outside in my garage at about 58 degrees and thought to myself if people only had an idea of what your were trying top sell them and what they are in for. Well I’ll keep spreading the word about cryolysis as well as the B.S about brown fat ever making people thin long term.

   We’ll see how it plays out, I already know and so dod you. Coolsculpting is working for people, brown fat adaptation or what ever name you want to put on it, will never work long term. It’s just not comfortable to do and others will realize this too.

   Same for the cold showers and so forth, Tried it but didn’t stick with it as most didn’t either.

   I guess you and I will be locking horns for a bit, I don’t mind telling the truth and not trying to use some peak numbers that mean nothing ion real life.

   answer some of the rants and let everyone know whats really the truth about the shivering and how its really not so mild.

   go ahead lets gather some people together and do some videos and get everyones unbiased feedback as to if they would continue with that kind of training or not?

   Lets coordinate it and see what happens it could go in your favor or the truth could come out, 50 -50 chance real people saying if this would be tolerable, talking about your extreme level that got you that peak number your so proud of, lets see who would be willing to do that on a daily basis.

   You and I do not count as we are more cold adapted than most would be and maybe even have my self control than others. so we don’t count. But the average person is what I’m talking about.

   the ones you are trying to sell on this idea of cold as an easy weight loss option.

8. Paul, I wondered why your long posts seemed, well… unbalanced. Almost like rants. Meandering all over the place. Very emotional. And very PERSONAL.

   Then I did a quick google search — you have a crowdfunding campaign for your own ‘cooling belt’ LOL!!! What’s more, your campaign looks to have “borrowed” a lot of content from our old campaign. Hell certain parts of your disclaimer are a word-for-word copy-and-paste from our disclaimer!!! (sheesh, do all the copycats just copy and paste from the Cool Fat Burner?)

   Your campaign talks about brown fat… but show not proof your device activates brown fat.
   Your campaign talks about increased calorie burn…. but show no proof of your device’s increased calorie burn.
   Your campaign talks about spot reduction freezing fat via cryolipolysis…. yet show no proof your device can reproduce the conditions necessary to do that.

   The Cool Fat Burner and Cool Gut Buster HAS proven it can do ALL those things, almost entirely via university testing.

   I also see you use the old gimmick of citing scientific studies that have nothing to do with your device, the same tactic used by all those who have no proof.

   Heck, your idea isn’t even original — there area already ‘cooling belts’ out there EXACTLY like yours. And NONE OF THEM have showed they can cool and maintain the skin at the temps necessary for spot reduction. LOL at a “chin spot reducer” cold wrap? What nonsense. And then you have the nerve to come on here and write your long-winded venting rants towards the Cool Fat Burner, which has actual scientific tests PROVING what it can do?

   Hypocritical much?

   ps. spot reduction via cold only removes a few millimeters at a time, and then, only at the targeted area. A large percentage of even the zeltec subjects were not happy with their results because it’s often minimal. And if people eat too much, they’ll just induce lipogenesis, and create new fat cells all over again. Finally, the thing about ‘only shrinking’ fat cells with cold thermogenesis… that’s what happens with ALL forms of weight loss! Dietary changes, exercise, etc etc. Always has, always will.

   pps. the numbers on the cooling vest comparison, where the Cool Fat Burner crushed the numbers of the Cold Shoulder and other vests? Those WERE after RMR was removed.

9. I found this interesting: Your return policy.

   Note: we reserve the right to only refund 100% (not the bonus 110% of item price) for “mistaken” orders, “unwanted gifts,” “same day returns,” and other similar “change of mind” episodes. Reasons such as “it’s too cold” or “I don’t like how it looks” and similar reasons for returns may void the refund bonus. In other words, if for whatever reason, you return your order w/o even using it or giving it a legitimate try or allowing us to remedy your situation, you might receive only 100% refund on the item price, instead of the bonus 110% refund on the item price (minus any shipping charges, as usual).

   Did you already expect this to happen? Of course many people are going to say its to cold, because it is and you mislead them by saying its only a mild cold.

   I tell people from the get go, It’s gonna be cold, freaking cold, but I also can tell you it will work and you will see results just like with cool sculpting.

   I’d rather have to deal with the cold a few times and get permanent results, than to have to be cold all the time.

   And no matter what you say, If your body does not feel cold, it will not activate any brown fat, can’t have one without the other, right?

   I mean you continually mention you do this shiver surfing, which means even you and I for that matter, since I’m also cold adapted, will have to shiver to activate anything.

   So you do admit your 2 hour sessions do involve ongoing shivering in the extreme levels, even after doing it for years. I would have thought by now you wouldn’t shiver at all.

   Oh that’s right, just cause you repeatedly get cold, doesn’t’ mean you stop feeling the effects of the cold after some time. It’s always going to feel cold, because that’s how our body works.

   No cold , No calorie burning(shrinking).

   Which makes complete sense because it’s the truth, no shivering equals no calorie burning, right?

   If your body doesn’t feel cold, then there is no need to start that brown fat furnace and it won’t.

   Did you also mention that we also have vasoconstriction systems in our bodies that also serve to warm us up when exposed to the cold. And in heavier people, that is usually enough to keep them warm, so in their case they won’t even benefit from cold exposure. Add to that the fact that heavier people have less brown adipose tissues than thinner people.

   So you and I already have more than some people, at least according to the papers I have read. So it’s quite possible that many people will never see any results at all, especially if they do not exercise very much if at all.

   Do you mean to tell me, you would rather spend hours a day shivering to shrink some fat cells down, instead of wearing something a few times and targeting those specific areas to permanently get rid of those fat cells.

   If you choose the former than you will have proven you are only trying to sell product and not interested in what’s best for everyone else.

   Because I can’t imagine anyone choosing the former being cold all the time method over the simpler 1-3 times method that permanently rids people of their stubborn fat.

10. OMG the more i read on your site the more it sounds like your really hyping people up, more than maybe I wanted to believe. I really hate it when people intentionally twist the facts to sell something.

    Do ou really want people taking your site apart word for word to expose you?

    I mean come on, workers who work in the cold develop more brown fat?

    What you wrote:
    “increases in amounts when one is consistently exposed to cold (example: outside seasonal workers develop more BAT over winter months)

    when in fact the study said this:

    Abstract
    Histochemical reactions and activities of mitochondrial enzymes in adipose tissue around the neck arteries and in pericardium were studied in men who had been outdoor workers in northern Finland. The purpose was to study the occurrence of brown fat in workers having been exposed to cool or cold ambient temperature. Indoor workers of the same age were used as controls. Histochemically, no mitochondrial enzyme reactions were seen in the adipose tissues taken from the indoor workers, whereas some outdoor workers had some multilocular adipose tissue, mostly around the neck arteries. Biochemical parameters also showed increased enzyme activities of aerobic energy metabolism in the adipose tissue of these people. The present results suggest that working in the cold can retain brown adipose tissue in “strategic” places in human adults.

    Didn’t say they created more as you try to infer, but “can retain”, So again twist the studies all you want but it will never support the claims you make in real life use.

    And BTW I too have been doing cold adaptation training for a long time too, well before the hype.

    We used to have a swedish bath that had ice cubes floating in the water at Presidents Bally clubs in Houston when I was in high school, But really what does that have to do with the price of coffee in china?

    One thing you will quickly find out is I am like a sponge and will know everything about a subject in short order, I’m kinda weird that way. About uncovering the truth that is.

    I stumped many experienced cancer doctors when researching cancer treatments for my wife. Some literally stopped and asked me what my background was? I’m just a seeker of the truth and nothing more, so do yourself a favor and start being truthful.

    I’m only offering one thing, cryolysis via a DIY system people can use at home. No crazy claims on burning calories by doing nothing.

    I’ve already mentioned my site now has to be gone through and we will be removing anything claiming brown fat benefits as it is not true!

11. I was wondering why you don’t make much mention of the other numbers listed on your studies using the beginner level?

    It only showed 16.2 calories energy per hour, which I have to add here is not 100% as a result of brown fat as you try to claim.

    It’s the sum total of all energy expended by the body including all our organs. So yes cold will make us use up more energy, but brown fat is not the only factor here, I guess, that was omitted for some other reason?

    So if most people will never get past the beginner stage if at all, then the most they can ever hope to burn ACCORDING TO YOUR indisputable studies, is 16.2 calories an hour and again this is a peak number as it was only measured for 30 minutes, right?

    So that is the absolute best anyone could hope for, unless they go EXTREME crazy cold level complete with water to chill us from the inside out, genius on your part I must say to make your numbers look better.

    What if you tried it without the ice cold water? what would the numbers be then? I bet quite a bit less, or at least less for sure. Plus, do you know what that much ice water makes your stomach feel like? Did you let people in on that discomfort?

    What do you say Eric? Is 16.2 calories and hour worth being mildly cold?
    You and I both know most people will not even consider the beginner level mild cold, so how do you expect them to ever get to the extreme level?

    And to be fair the others burned up to 9 calories per hour according to your studies, also not worth it.

    But you choose to compare their beginner level, if they have one, to your extreme level!

    WOW, now that’s pretty interesting. Lets compare a souped up sports car to someone else’s bicycle, that’s not a fair comparison is it? But yet that is what you have done here, shame on you Eric.

    “The Cool Fat Burner proved yet again it is the ONLY cooling vest that can burn 500 calories in a few hours. The copycat cooling vests cannot burn half that even if you wore them for 24 hours straight!”

    Again you don’t make clear you are comparing apples and oranges, There 9 calories times 24 hours is 216 calories and yours is 388 not 500. Oh but you were using the better numbers, right.

    See how studies are manipulated? Now you know why most studies don’t mean crap, other than what they want you to see or believe.

    Seeing is believing, I wonder if this will get reworded to be more truthful, I would think you want to be completely honest right? and not hide behind twisted results.

12. Let me ask you a direct question, How many times a week do you use the extreme level of cold that you speak of? everyday? one a week? twice?

    Is this every week? every month? for how long the past year?

    And is this all you did to get in good shape? What diet did you follow and what type of exercise did you do?

    I did very little other than my normal workouts, which in all truthfulness is less than 30 minutes of actual working out and the rest talking and visiting:-)

    And i DID NOT watch anything I ate, in fact I ate like crap, milkshakes, candy and all kinds of crap! My kids and friends can all attest to it and I don’t have anything to hide.

    I’ve spent hours doing crazy stuff like what you are trying to sell people on and guess what? It don’t work long term man, Its just the way we are wired as humans, We don’t want to be uncomfortable at least not for long.

    So lets hear it, How long and for how many months? And I will Bet you Dollars to donuts that if you stop today and change nothing else you will go right back to your previous looking self. End of story and no matter how many times you keep repeating the same old “indisputable studies” B.S., it won’t change the facts.

    Stop using the cold and stop shivering for 2-3 hors and you will not burn(shrink) any more fat cells.

    One guy posted here saying he lost a few pounds the first week but then gained 4 back LOL, now that is the truth and the poor guy is going to learn fairly quickly that it doesn’t work, no matter how long he pushes through.

    I have years of pictures I can dig through and show you what I used to look like, I don’t think I looked bad, but definitely not as ripped as now and I’m 52, how old are you?

    I wish my wife was here to tell everyone how crazy and extreme I was about exercising and being active.

    I still eat what I want when I want, Do you?, Can you eat anything ongoing day after day and still maintain that shape? I don’t think so, unless you want to spend even more time shivering. But I can and have been doing so since my wife died. almost two years ago and I have maybe worn the belt twice in the last 4 months.

    Can users of your brown fat activating vest do that and stay thin and ripped? I Dooooon’t Think SOOOO! :-)

    Coolsculpting is permanent destruction of fat cells like our belts or any process that uses cryolisis as the catalyst. And it’s only done 1-4 times and they are done!!!

13. And Yes I have read all your stuff, have you? Did you double check your stuff for truth or did you maximize it for profit?

    I’d be quite careful as you have a money back guarantee in effect don’t you?

14. Your words :”This is indisputable, tested at an independent 3rd party location.” referring to your indisputable study.

    Nothing is indisputable!!

    Do remember a time when all the brilliant minds said the world was flat? Or how about the one where if man exceeded the 4 minute mile his heart would explode.

    All this and more was thought to be indisputable as you say.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .

    Sorry but I was LMFAO,,,, How stupid do you think people are? Really?

15. All that was shown was that you can hit a peak of “X” amount and thats it,

    Trust me I know from first hand experience, studies are manipulated all the time to show what they what and the data can be measured and presented in so many ways. This was the case and still is in the cancer industry. I spent hours talking with doctors and many of them new less than I did and I had just began to scratch the surface of cancer treatments, Some crazy, some valid and many attacked by the mainstream pharma companies.

    You think just because you show some stupid test about cold making you burn more calories just sitting still, that it makes the rest of what you are saying to people true?

    Of course we are going to burn calories warming back up, It’s been that way since the beginning of time!

    If spending time in the cold alone was gong to make people thin, then we should all just move to Alaska or other cold climates.

    All I care about is the truth and both of you guys are down right misleading people and in a few years people will look back and see how they were taken yet again.

    No one can patent the use of something that has been occurring for decades…The use of cold packs on the body has been around since i can remember, they just found a way to make it into a machine and make it medical in nature so they can make money.

    People don’t need to spend that kind of money to do something they can do at home.

    But back to your claims….I personally have done what you are describing in my own home while I was using the belt to lose weight and let e tell you those few times I did drink a cold milkshake and other cold beverages, it was not very fun at all. I’m pretty sure you looked like you were shivering just like I was and that is NOT mild in nature.

    Play it down all you want, but the fact is, most people WILL NOT EVER continue to use this type of weigh loss regiment. We are not that type of species, We want to be comfortable and all your doing is trying to tap into that something for nothing B.S.

    You don’t have to do anything, but wear this mild cold vest ad you will burn 500 calories a day extra. Bull, Bull, Bull.

    It never worked for me and I will post picts of me know so you can see and I’m also 52 years old, not in my prime, well not according to science:-)

    Look man, you made a whole crap load of money and some B.S. test is not going to keep your business going, so I suggest you either start being 100% truthful or you won’t be around long, simple as that, People are not stupid and when the realization is made that they were taken, well, the universe has a way of balancing things out. There must always be a fair exchange or things get out of balance.

    I myself foolishly believed what I had seen on your kick starter’s for the cool fat burner and the cold shoulder.

    I too made the brief mistake of believing the “Nasa Scientest” and the guy using all the fancy words and the study for authority. Trust me I know all the marketing words and methods to twist the truth.

    I even have some of this B.S. on my website that I now have to remove, but like always, I had to be sure I wasn’t leading people down the wrong path.

    When I read all the studies everyone was citing, I was completely blown away with the down right lies you guys and anyone saying brown fat is this miracle weight loss option. Just use “Mild Cold”, again, Bull, Bull, Bull.

    Most studies until only recently were done on mice! Not people, and they all had lots of things to say such as the mice were subjected to 4 degrees celsius for 8 weeks not 2 hours as you guys want people to believe. Did you even read all the reports? Or just figure you could make some money, Which by the way, Good job from a standpoint of purely business and money making opportunities.

    But this is where people that have not realized that the only thing worth doing is that thing which is for the greeter good and nothing else.

    In this way we can all evolve and grow as one. This type of misrepresentation is not conducive to the greater good and in fact hurts those who are trying to do what is best for the greeter good.

    Do you realize that the cool sculpting camp is charging people a minimum of $750 per area and most people need more than one treatment.

    And for what? For creating smoke and mirrors around applying cold to someone’s belly? Something that was first discovered with popsicles? How many years have people been putting ice on their backs or other body parts?

    As far as I’m concerned it’s not about the money anymore, It’s about the truth!

    People CAN GET THE SAME EFFECT AS COOLSCULPTING by just using ice gel packs, as I and many other have done at home for way less than $750 bucks! You know it and I know it.

    And your pack doesn’t work any better than anyone else’s, period, your only lying to yourself.

    I was using my belt design long before I ever heard of either of you guys. My wife ended up dying from cancer, so my life was kinda on hold for the last year and a half. Then I saw your guys campaigns and though I had missed the boat. But it appears that when the truth finally comes out, like I said the universe has ways of balancing things out.

    I have at least 5 more campaign ideas that are all greta ones and so this one is not about anything but the truth.

    Stop misleading people!. I will be doing a video play by play from your study to point out to people every little deception, whether intentional or not.

    Thermo neutral y but, should have been closer to 78 degrees according to the papers I read on indirect calorimetry. Just one thing most people will never validate. because most just take things at face value as I did originally.

    Lastly, You state, “I easily spend 1.5 to 2 hrs around shivering during my own sessions”. Well good for you, BUT MOST will not even be able to do 30 minutes and you know this.

    I’m with you on thinking well, if I can do it then anyone can.

    But is it likely? and in this case it is not otherwise people would have already been doing it long ago. We’ve know about cold showers, turning down the thermostat a bit, sleeping without covers and so forth.

    Only difference now is they created a new buzz word, “Brown Adipose Tissue” and of course couple that with “do nothing and burn calories” and you have you guys apparently oh and the guy from dragons den, that’s another joke!.

    One thing you don’t seem to tell people is that then the cold exposure stops so does the calorie burn, (not talking short term til the body warms back up) meaning long term.

    How come you got fat as you say in your video and you lived in a cold climate according to the snow in the video, right? why did you have to go to such extremes to get ripped and you do look great, so good job on that.

    But the truth is it is not easy and it’s not permanent at all and most will gain it all back and maybe more since they were so cold. Maybe it will screw there metabolism up long term if they don’t stick with it. Do you know this part of the study yet? No because as you cannot use a piece of data labeled peak performance and thing that it will always be that way well into the future.

    You know how many things the FDA has deemed as safe for us to use or do only to realize later they were wrong, of course only after many or hurt or die and they have made their money.

    So again studies, I take those with a grain of salt. Common sense is far better at spotting B.S.

    All I know is I’m 52, have always worked out like crazy and have tried pretty much everything, even cold adaption training, and NOTHING has given me my ripped look other than cryolysis using gel oaks around my waist and nothing else, no big cold vest to make me shiver, just the waist belt.

    I know this if people had a choice and they new the TRUTH, then I’m pretty sure everyone of them would choose the one or two time cold treatment and then they are done with as opposed to the ongoing torment of chilling their bodies down just to shrink down their stubborn fat cells, even if it is at 300% their normal metabolism rate for 2 plus hours a day for the rest of their life right?

    You are telling them that they will have to continue this nonsense in order to continue to get results, Right? If not then your guilty of not giving all the facts that you were aware of.

    Because common sense alone will tell you that the minute the cause is removed so is the effect”

    Not so with our system, it works simply using cold to destroy fat cells, no shrink them. And it only requires minimal use not ongoing cold, or mild cold as you guys like to call it.

    Tell people to go out side next time they have a 40 degree day or even 50 and take their shirts off and sit for 2 hours, then they will say no thank you to any brown fat weight loss strategies, I’m pretty sure you both know this, but to do that would render your business model based on brown fat null and void.

    Best course of action is to either just admit you took advantage of the studies you found and thought you could make lots of money, which you did, or you were like me and didn’t realize it wasn’t really what they said.

    Growth comes from accepting responsibility for ones actions.

    The universe is watching, what will you do?

    Pardon any typos:-)

16. Actually Paul you’re wrong on many fronts. But it looks like you’re trying to sell some cold-sculpting device you invented? (you realize Zeltec has that patented, right?)

    1. The Cool Fat Burner was PROVEN to burn 16X more calories than the Cold Shoulder using indirect calorimetry. This is indisputable, tested at an independent 3rd party location. You can see the calorie burn charts taken straight from the university, posted on our landing page.

    http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r591/CoolFatBurner/Calorie%20burn%20RMR%20removed%20_zps00pbpklx.jpg
http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r591/CoolFatBurner/Cool%20Fat%20Burner%20calorie%20burning_zpspbsqnggm.jpg

    2. On the original indirect calorimetry experiment, we INTENTIONALLY used the Cool Fat Burner at various intensities to show the different calorie burn numbers, 30 min each. Again, that was ON PURPOSE. (we even say so, and show that graphically on the video) Personally, I easily spend 1.5 to 2 hrs around shivering during my own sessions.

    3. The Cool Fat Burner’s ability to triple metabolism and burn hundreds of calories an hour will be proven yet again in the current independent university group study on the Cool Fat Burner

    4. actually, we DO say exactly that in regards to cryolipolysis, it’s in our YouTube video! (seriously, did you even read or watching anything from our site? Most of the stuff you’re saying is opposite of what we’ve already experimentally proved)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6A6zWV3kd8

    5. we’ve accurately tested and reported on the Cool Fat Burner activating brown fat, AND how many calories that burns, verified by indirect calorimetry and PET scans. No one else has done that. Again, have you even read or looked at any of our stuff?

    6. In the “Burn 2500 Calories with Cold Thermogenesis” video, ALL of that weight lost (during the first segment) was burned ENTIRELY with cold thermogenesis, as verified by indirect calorimetry and DEXA scans from two different university exercise labs. Diet or exercise did not count for the weight loss, in fact I ate well above maintenance, as described in the video.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkzhyVOgfb4

    7. EVERYTHING on our site is accurate. Quote me something that isn’t. ps. where are your links?

17. I agree with the statement that erics does not some how work over another one, its so stupid when you think about it.

    cold ice packs are made from various materials, some use PG, some use other ingredients to transfer cold to the body. They are all the same Period, But the whole brown fat weight loss thing is a complete misrepresentation of the studies i have come across.

    The way cool sculpting or Cryolysis works is by applying cold to fatty areas and this cold will cause cell death, not shrinkage!. This is a point neither of those other guys tells you.

    You are not getting rid of fat cells, only shrinking them down, thats why people don’t lose weight long term with this approach. I suppose if what Eric says was try the, most people in the colder states would all be thin and last time I checked that was no the case.

    Cold alone does not make you thin permanently, period.

    Only cool sculpting or any method using Cryolysis gets rid of fat cells permanently and thats what the cryosculptor does. I can already tell you and this will be the prediction going on record. Both of them will start to back away from the whole brown fat activation thing and start to do what we have been doing from day one. targeted fat loss like cool sculpting,.

    now whether they intentionally mislead or not, between the two of them they took over 1 million dollars from people on indiegogo and kickstarter, thats a lot of money for soothing that people will not even use for long and so they will end up in the closet with all the other weightless products they have bought over the years.

    Truth is the best business building practice I know of and both of them have not been truthful and Eric has even gone the trouble of doing a study to support his less than accurate claims.

    He talks about the extreme level of bat truing which if you watched the video induces a lot of shivering, I’ve done it and its not fun nor comfortable and I like most only did it a few times.

    Now I like most will use something that only requires being cold for an hour a day one or twice a week and they are done never having to be cold again unless they gain more fat cells back.

    DON’T BELIEVE everything you read or hear, Hell don’t even believe me, do your own research and see who’s telling the truth.

    I really hate to have to anything bad, but the truth is the truth and I’d rather be know for having taken a stand based on truth. I’ll be here years from now, will they?

18. Boy oh boy how the mud starts flying LOL.

    Well let me add to the mix here as I have been working on the cryosculptor years ago before my wife died and had to put it on hold.

    They are completely right it is not rocket science and they are pretty much both misleading many people, one is using so called studies as there proof they are the best, but if you watch the video you will see the truth.

    Listen I will be doing a video going thru every step of that experiment they did at the college.

    I have done this myself for a while now and let me tell you almost no one is going to continue using something that makes them feel cold for hours a day just to burn an extra 80 plus calories an hour.

    Eric says that at the rate a 185lb person would burn the obligatory 500 calories a day in a little over 2 hours.

    I have to call B.S. here as the is not the case, he is using the peak number which didn’t even get reached until 30 minutes into the test and this is supposed to represent the real burn rate for the full two hours.

    That’s like saying since i was able to hit 30 mph on my bike in 2 hours i will travel 60 miles, highly unlikely, the peak is just that a peak not a sustained rate that is maintained for the entire duration.

    When my wife got cancer I researched everything and quickly found most studies are not always truthful and do not fully disclose all the facts.

    There is so much more to go into here, its better left for my video.

    I noticed both are back peddling in their claims and even Eric says why not use his fat burner for at least 1/3 of those calories burned in a day, the other 2/3d’s consisted of diet and exercise.

    check out our indiegogo and website for more truthful info on this subject.

    Most people ail not do it and even if they do it doesn’t work at least not for the effort expended not to mention the discomfort of the cold.

    Been there and done that, I decided most people want one thing, and that is to be rid of stubborn fat once and for all, not getting cold forever just to burn some extra calories a day.

    I used our belts to get more ripped than ever and I’m 52. I don’t have to be cold daily, just wore it for a few days a week and I was done.

    watch my videos and see if you agree with my assessments. Our product is targeted at one thing..permanent fat loss using cryolysis or cryolipolysis as they have come to coin it.

19. This is Eric Grove, creator of the Cool Fat Burner, the world’s first brown fat cooling vest.

    A few facts: we’re the first and only to show triple metabolism and calorie burn numbers in the lab:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sbq9UjTfGbI

    The first and only showing we can activate “brown fat,” and keep it active for hours after removing the vest, verified twice by PET scans:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIzNVw2AgOM

    First and only to show we can boost the hormone adiponectin by over 60% in only 2 hours:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfkM2NExE5Y

    First and only to show that being “cold adapted” can raise one’s resting metabolism:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RalW86fcH0A

    First and only to integrate cold thermogenesis into glycogen depletion and ketosis, allowing for frequent carb refeeds and helping to boost muscle growth, even while dieting down:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkzhyVOgfb4

    And although not endorsed or recommended for this use, we’ve even shown that the Cool Gut Buster can reproduce the conditions necessary for the spot reduction of stomach fat via cryolypolisis:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6A6zWV3kd8

    Finally we’re the first and only calorie burning cooling vest to fund a legitimate, controlled, 3rd party independent university group experiment (currently underway), where we’ll be confirming that the Cool Fat Burner can not only triple calorie burn for everyone, but we’re measuring its effects on the hormones adiponectin and irisin, which are being studied by the medical community at large for their roles not only in burning fat and building muscle, but as a treatment for diabetes, heart disease, longevity, and even their ability to fight certain types of cancer!

    Here is a quick primer on cold exposure, and how the body reacts. And by the way, this is pretty much established, indisputable, and agreed upon by everyone “in the know.” There is no ambiguity here.

    Low level cold exposure would be like sitting in an air conditioned room. This might activate the sympathetic nervous system and cause a slight increase in respiration, but does very little calorie burning. You’re not getting ripped sitting in front of the A/C.

    Moderate level cold exposure would be like wearing very little clothing in a ~ 60’F room. This can activate brown fat. This level only boosts metabolism by maybe 10% and only burns around 7-10 extra calories an hour. So even brown fat does not burn that many calories in real time. The only way this level of cold will cause weight loss is if you do it nearly 24 hours a day.

    Finally there is high intensity cold thermogenesis. This hardcore level can actually boost metabolism upwards of 500%!
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK232852/

    This is the level of near-shivering, all the way through total body shivering. This is the only known way to burn any significant number of calories with cold exposure in real time, and the only way cold exposure can rival exercise for calorie burning. The trick here is to keep your fingers, toes, ears, and nose warm, as they have the most sensory nerves for cold; if you keep them warm, you’ll *feel* warm, despite your torso being cold, even if cold enough to make you shiver!

    The take home here is this: “mild, comfortable” cold exposure that Wayne Hayes and the Cold Shoulder promotes simply doesn’t do anything for real fat burning or weight loss. This is long since established in the lab. If it was that easy, it would have been done decades ago. If it were that easy, you could drop weight just sitting by the A/C. This is also why since day-one, since back in 2012 when the Cool Fat Burner first went live, we recommended adding some high-intensity hardcore cold thermogenesis to your sessions. It’s the only proven way to get huge calorie burn numbers.

    To claim that mild, comfortable cold exposure can burn calories is the age old “get something for nothing” scam.

    You can’t get stronger without working out.
    You can’t get smarter without study.
    And you can’t get the effects of high-intensity cold exposure with only mild, light exposure.

    This is how we knew what would happen when we compared the Cool Fat Burner against the Cold Shoulder at UCSD. The Cool Fat Burner burned SIXTEEN TIMES AS MANY CALORIES than the Cold Shoulder, who was exaggerating their claims by nearly 30X above the truth! You can see Hayes trying to do ‘damage control’ down in the comments:
    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1410466887/the-worlds-only-proven-calorie-burning-weight-loss/posts/1161159

    Then Wayne Hayes took this evidence and actually tried to use it to promote the Cold Shoulder vest by LEAVING OUT THE PART that showed his vest didn’t really work and didn’t really do what he had been claiming it could do:
    http://s1173.photobucket.com/user/CoolFatBurner/media/Not-the-whole-story_zps9ec5xzvf.jpg.html

    He claimed the Cold Shoulder could burn 250 calories an hour, when in reality, it only burned 9 calories an hour. One has to question his truthfulness, especially after Good Morning America did a similar experiment, and got the exact same results of only 8-9 calories per hour burned … and Hayes admitted to them that he also measured a mere 10% boost in metabolism — not the huge amount he keeps claiming in all his marketing materials.
    http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/cold-dieting-hottest-trend-29210214

    Hayes has also claimed that there is some hidden, unmeasurable calorie burning that occurs once you remove his vest. There is no evidence for this. First, all cold exposure calorie burning can be detected and measured by indirect calorimetry, the gold-standard used in all these experiments. Second, once you remove any cold stimulus, your body will begin to return to normal temps, and your calorie burning will come back to normal. The test subject who wore the Cold Shoulder, their metabolism was back to normal much less than 30 min after removing the vest. So they burned less than 20 total extra calories after 1.5 hours of total use.

    BTW the one study he links (Reference: jci.org/articles/view/67803 ) has more or less been debunked because it didn’t closely monitor their diets…
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4430460/

    …and it used body impedance to measure body changes. Readings can be totally bogus.

    http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/index.php/free-content/free-content/volume-1-issue-4-the-pitfalls-of-body-fat-measurement-parts-3-and-4-bod-pod-and-bioelectrical-impedance-bia/the-pitfalls-of-bodyfat-measurement-part-4-bioelectrical-impedance-bia/

    Now Hayes is apparently making a “Pro” version of his Cold Shoulder… though he seems to be trying to make it more and more like the Cool Fat Burner. Wonder why? ;D

    Hayes has no independent evidence for his Cold Shoulder. Just user-feedback claiming weight loss. (placebo effect, food journal effect, etc)
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080708080738.htm

    His real skill seems to be in getting undeserved media access. He certainly hasn’t earned it with scientific proof or controlled studies on his vest.

    Finally, I apologize if this post seems overly negative or distasteful; it’s unfortunate that one has to “wallow in the dirt” just to get the truth across. But I believe people deserve to know the facts and the truth to make an honest, well-informed decision. Doesn’t everyone want to know the truth?

20. Dear Ben + Lee,

    Eric Grove of the Cool Fat Burner seems intent on proving that all the other cold vests out there don’t work, but his miraculously does. My answer to him has always been, “Creating an ice vest isn’t rocket science, Eric, so why would your vest miraculously work while all the others don’t?”

    I’ve seen the Good Morning America segment where they “tested” The Cold Shoulder for about 20 minutes. They used a device called an indirect calorimeter that measures your breath over a short period (minutes) to estimate calorie burn minute-to-minute. This short-term measurement bears little relationship to long-term fat loss.

    What people really care about is fat loss. The tests I’ve done on The Cold Shoulder vest showed that long-term use of the vest results in about 1 lb of fat per week being lost, which corresponds to 3500 calories per week or 500 calories per day. That does NOT mean you’re burning 500 calories during the two hours you’re wearing the vest, which is what Eric wants you to believe. It means 500 calories PER DAY. The mechanism behind fat loss due to cold exposure lasts far beyond the time you wear the vest. In fact the mechanism isn’t even fully understood — go to our new KickStarter campaign and listen to the Radio Health Journal interview on the main page to see how little we know, as described by scientists other than me, and scientists who are independent of The Cold Shoulder. (And BTW, The Cool Fat Burner is not the only guy working towards clinical trials.)

    Mild cold exposure causes fat loss. This conclusion is consistent with independent scientific tests that show if you put people in a 65 degree (F) room for just 2 hours a day wearing light clothing, then over many weeks they show measurable fat loss. (Reference: jci.org/articles/view/67803 .)

    Wearing light clothing at 65F does NOT result in a measurable increase in breathing, heart rate, or other metabolic processes; it just gives mild goosebumps. Yet it still results in provable, repeatable, significant fat loss. This is the concept that Eric Grove of the Cool Fat Burner has repeatedly failed to understand, despite me pointing him at the evidence, repeatedly.

    Incidentally, we have a new KickStarter campaign, using a vest that provides as much cold as the Cool Fat Burner, but is smaller, lighter, lasts longer, and is far more comfortable.

    To hear the Radio Health Journal interview referenced above, it’s the top “video” link on the following page:
    kickstarter.com/projects/969324769/the-cold-shoulder-pro-calorie-burning-vest

21. No, the Cold Shoulder doesn’t work. It was exposed on Kickstarter as being a scam by another cooling vest (that ironically DOES apparently work). Then that same campaign linked to ABC Good Morning America, who also showed the Cold Shoulder was a scam. That Hayes guy is a liar, and was exposed right there in the comments section.

    ps. my wife already tried to post this, but this site seems to have blocked her post? If so, I have to question how unbiased this site really is.

    • Ben,

      Thank you for commenting. About your wife’s comment. As I am unaware of who your wife is, any comment will be published on the site as long as it isn’t spam or trying to sell something. We provide this site to be a good source of communication between our review, our readers, and the rest of the world.. So we do our best to keep things civil and all conversations on topic. All comments go through moderation on our site. So they are reviewed and published in the manner in which they came in. As long as they are good for the conversation of the topic at hand, we will approve.

      — Supplement Police

22. Wasn’t this thing proven to be a scam?

    • Where did you read that? I have one. I can tell you personally that it definitely does something. I lost 2 lbs in the first week. You can literally “feel” your metabolism spinning faster. The problem that I encountered was that in week 2 I felt so extra hungry that I over ate and then gained 4 lbs. I’m in week 3 right now and will just keep pushing forward. If you have a link or any other information I’d love to read up on what you have.

      • Yes. The Cool Fat Burner vest did an experiment at Univ of CA where they proved the Cold Shoulder didn’t work. It was on the CFB Kickstarter campaign. They also linked a Good Morning America segment in the comments that also showed the Cold Shoulder wasn’t real deal. Kickstarter apparently got mad and suspended their campaign, so they went to IndieGoGo. That’s where I backed them after all that happened. The CFB has actual studies on their site proving it works, and according to their IndieGoGo page, they’re actively funding a group study at the university.

        Dan S, it’s called placebo. The 2 links above proved it doesn’t really do anything. Literally no way it can help with fat loss.

      • Good Morning America did a segment and showed it didn’t work. But I guess Supplement Police doesn’t want anyone to know that.

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